Litości - idę spać. Trochę poszukałem, same świeże - a przed poprzednim Tropikiem szukałem, bo to było dla mnie istotne.
Znowu ta koszmarna strona 113... Rydwany i herosi, Łuk BSB, teraz to...
http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=8307&start=0You can't break up or change the position or order of your command group. The command group goes in the centre of the front rank (Chronicles 2004, p113), and characters are deployed alongside them (BRB, p40). So no, you can't replace a command model with a character. He has to go on one side of the command group or the other. If moving into a fighting position, he still can't move into a command model's position.
Technically, the Standard Bearer is supposed to be in the centre of the front rank (BRB, p108), but in practice
Well, let's see. The positioning of characters and the command group is in two different places in the BRB, and the 2004 Chronicles as well, and takes a fair bit of digging to find. I wouldn't exactly call it clear! Dunno about you, but I was confused about it for over a year, and originally played that characters could be placed anywhere in the front rank - I seem to recall this last came up on Portent-that-was, about a year ago, which is when I realized I'd been playing it wrong. Even then, I'd never seen or played that the command group could be broken up.
El Rey : "Characters are positioned alongside the Champion, Standard Bearer and Musician." Since it doesn't seem that you consider the 2004 Chronicles "rules", I won't mention the Q&A about the Command Group being in the centre of the front rank... I don't consider any of this new rules, BTW, just clarifications of what GW originally (probably) meant.
Anyway, the word "alongside" means next to the Command models. Not in the middle of, or a few troopers away from. While the BRB doesn't actually say that the Command Group has to be positioned together (more or less clarified later), it doesn't say that you can ever replace a Champion with a Character, either...you can swap a character for an ordinary trooper, which a Champion is certainly not.
There are no rules whatsoever regarding moving champions, except when accepting a challenge - they might have to then, depending on the situation.
In fact, the BRB doesn't say that you can move characters within a unit unless they're engaged in combat and the character's not in a fighting position. So you play some of the 2004 Chronicles rules, but not others?
So, back to my original point : Command group in the centre front rank, characters next to them. Standard bearer central. Command group can't be broken up. If anyone has any references suggesting or implying otherwise, please post them. While I'll certainly agree that the 2004 Chronicles Q&A is far from perfect, that's the printed rules, and that's the way I'll play it until something better (7th ed!) comes along.
- David.
http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=4055&start=0From: Gavin Thorpe
>Subject: RE: Gav - Position of the Command Group?
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:00:37
>
>Hey there,
>
>My previous reply on this has been that by the letter of the rules the
>command group is placed in the centre of the front rank (or as close as)
>with the standard bearer. However, in my games I'm happy with placing them
>in any order at the centre of the front rank, and that a character that
>joins the unit should be considered a member of the command group
>
>This'll be jiggered with a bit in 7th ed - there's only a small amount of
>exploitation avaiable from moving characters around in units, and
>essentially a command group at the centre looks cool. I've never known
>anyone complain to me or their opponent about the positioning pof the
>command group, and if they do they should be told to take it all a >little less seriously!
>
>GAV
*****
I think Gav's comments on this speak for themselves.
Regards,
BF